First off, before I forget...I don't think you're coming off as anything more or less than intelligent and passionate on the forum. A lot of what you're saying SOUNDS radical within the context of where most people are...but I don't think any of it's really all that abrasive. Of course, I tend to agree with pretty much all you're saying, so my view might be skewed. : )
I'm going to type out just a bit of an excerpt from that book because I got excited about it and really sort of HAVE to now.
First a quote on marriage as a "mystery/sacrament"...this sents the context:
"The goal of marriage is not the fulfillment of one's needs; rather, the goal of marriage is heaven!"
He then talks about how in his pre-Orthodox days as a Protestant, he always felt a bit guilty in marriage, as if he was choosing between his wife and God. As a sacrament, however, marriage doesn't present that choice. Rather, "my relationship with my wife is not a thing of this world, it is of the Kingdom! The road to God is the road I travel with my wife. I love God by loving my wife, and as I give myself to her completely in sacrificial love, I give myself to God. Because of the sacrement of marriage, I find God in communion with my wife -- not by myself as a hermit." He talks soon after that the keys to great marriage include what you and I know to be essential to a life of contemplation..."if I repent and change my ways by taking up the cross of self-crucifixion and living a life of self-denial, my marriage will endure and, by His grace, an entry into the heavenly Kingdom will be opened to me." He talks of marriage as being "the Cross" and tells a Desert Fathers story that I'll save until you get to read it yourself, then goes on. "But if working through the day-to-day difficulties of a marriage relationship becomes part of your labor to attain the Kingdom -- because it requires a denial of self and an embracing of selfless love -- then it becomes an event of cosmic significance, because it involves the overthrow of the satanic pseudo-kingdom and the planting of God's Kingdom here on earth. Then it has meaning, because you are involved in something bigger than yourself." Another great element of the book is that he has quotes by people like St. John Chrysostom, St. Ignatious of Antioch and St. Gregory the Theologian in the side margins.
In doing a little research and whatnot, turns out Fr. John Mack works somehow with the University of Kansas, which is maybe 3 hours away from us. That's kind of cool...I know he does conferences now and then.
Here's an article I dug up (on a site with which he's at least partially involved) on the Value of Suffering (insert your own marriage joke here!). A lot of it is pretty basic but it's put simply and very well.
All right, well, so there's just a bit on about all that.
The only problem about searching around for more info on someone/something is that inevitably I run into MORE people/ideas I find interesting and want to explore.
For example, another thing I found by John Mack (on beliefnet) has him quote this book:
Christ the Eternal Tao.
THEN just now in following up on finding more on that, I find The Watchful Gate, which has me just about to blow my mind!
Due to the hour I'm finally finding this I'm not allowing myself to get started, really, but I'd imagine you'd both find it very satisfying, just from my quick glance at their intro article.
Okay, I have to take off now but wanted to mention one more thing. Jeff, have you met Luke (Stacey's brother) Dimmitt at all? He's the one just a couple years younger than her...I think he's 18 or 19. Here's kind of the thing with him. He's one of those quiet intelligent types...works at his dad's salvage yard and enjoys doing so and will probably run it one day. Jumped out of high school early to get his GED, has taken classes at Ivy Tech, just sort of does his thing quietly. Anyway, due to some sort of relationship stuff, he's found himself in the position of not really having other people (besides his sometimes significant other) that he does stuff with. He has a couple hobbies, a big one being playing guitar, but doesn't really have friends he regularly spends time with. He's really trying to make an effort to at least get in contact with others. Actually last week he and Darci (Stacey's sister) drove out here and were here for about a week. They actually came to the inquirer's class with us and learned about icons, of all things...and I guess Luke was really thoughtful and interested in what was going on and when Darci (who is a GREAT kid but still very young, like 14, and sort of still holding the line she's grown up with) voiced some doubt or whatever about the whole thing, Luke was actually sort of defending the ideas along with Stacey...very bright guy. Anyway, he called me up the other night (partially because he couldn't get ahold of Stacey) and wanted me to ask you if you'd ever be interested in just sort of diddling around on guitar with him sometime. I guess Mrs. Dimmitt told him you play and are taking lessons from Liza...I told Luke I'd mention it to you but also told him that you're generally into folk and whatnot as opposed to rock and he said he was happy playing most anything, he even has gone over and jammed with them all at Fiddler's Hearth a couple times. Anyway, I know your time is pretty tight sometimes but wanted to mention it to you as a possibility...he seemed really very eager about the whole thing.
Speaking of Stacey's siblings, she was telling me that Grant (who is 16, I think) and his friends have befriended the guy who runs this "Smitty's General Store" that I think is in Argos. Apparently this guy is an old hippie type who writes poetry and is really big into the peace movement and whatnot. From what Stacey told me, he's really affecting these kids and getting them into progressive idealogy and whatnot. They're all pretty much skater kids who already feel a bit at odds with "the man" because of skateboard regulations and whatnot (the cops recently took Grant's away for a week or something) and they're finding an ally and a role model in this sort of old countercultural guy...Stacey said he's a writer and poet and said she thought (from what Grant said) he may have significance past just Argos (or wherever this is). Do you know anything about this guy? I'm really very curious.
Fascinating post, Jeff. I've been thinking about it and trying to come up with something intelligent to say, but alas, not to be.
I think that the majority of that post has the makings for the start of an incredible academic paper ( a thesis, perhaps? ) or series of smaller articles or something.
I watched that first LOTR movie and it seemed VERY similar to Star Wars to me. I've been told that the books are much better developed and whatnot, but that was my impression. Not a good or bad thing, necessarily, just thought it applied here.
In another vein, Litkicks.com has a link to an audio version of Gregory Corso's "Bomb."
I haven't mentioned this since I found out, but...
in talking to the English graduate department chairperson or whatever, I found out that getting into English grad school isn't going to involve taking a bunch more classes. All it requires here are 18 or more English credits (which I surpassed easily) and taking either the GRE or MAT placement test. Now I just need to study up for the placement test and take it. I'm thinking right now that what I might do is take the test in August and then maybe take a grad course in the fall, maybe not...but not go back to the 6 credits a semester thing until January. We'll see how it all works out. Stacey's excited about going back to school in the fall...as dedicated as I am to getting to where I'm going with all this, I'm also really feeling like I'd like to have little or no load (well, other than self-imposed) in order to support her in what she's doing by having more of my time open for all those things that people need to take care of in the course of life (cooking, cleaning, etc.). That will also allow me more time for reading and other writing projects, hehehe. I have one I'll share more about later that I'm really thinking I'd like to do.
We're doing these little pre-marriage sessions with Fr. Stephen. Up til now it's mostly just been getting ducks in a row but we're going to start some more "counselling" type stuff in June. The book we're using is called "Preserve Them, O Lord" by Fr. John Mack. So far it's really really good and offers an interesting and beautiful perspective on marriage and relationships and all that. If you guys are ever looking for any kind of book to go through and sort of help enrich and tighten up your relationship, I really highly recommend it. I'll probably mention things from it here and there on this blog...sorry if it gets to be overkill, Walker. There's a part I'm going to read again in the next couple days that really really really (really? really!) put some things in perspective for me that I think would be interesting to you.
In the article I mentioned (just below) about jazz, the author references the story "Blue Melody" by J.D. Salinger. You've (assuming Walker or Jeff is reading this) probably read it at some point but in case you haven't or would like to read it again, I found it at http://www.freeweb.hu/tchl/salinger/bluemelody.html . I'd not read it yet but found it to be pretty good.
One of my English professors just sent me this link to an article:
http://chronicle.com/cgi2-bin/printable.cgi?article=http://chronicle.com/prm/weekly/v50/i33/33b01901.htm
It's basically about Dylan as a subject of academic research and writing...some pretty interesting stuff in there.
Incidentally, the same guy who wrote that article has one in this week's Chronicle of Higher Education about African-Americans, Jews and jazz...looks to have lots of Salinger references though I've only just begun reading it.
Hey man...thanks for the congrats.
Well, the "Sex Machine" remix integrates elements of that backing other songs. Most of it's pretty good, really. Somehow they work Boz Scaggs in there.
In thinking about it, in a lot of ways it is a big deal. I mean, my sister and I are doing something our parents or grandparents didn't do. My dad got some sort of pastor's degree but it wasn't a full 4 year bachelor's.
I definitely do see it as a big step in a series of steps. I tend to be really hard on myself sometimes. My biggest problem is patience. I see people I really look up to and things I want to do and want to be there ASAP and undervalue anything leading up to that. Of course, by the time I get there, I'll have my sites set higher. Maybe I'll be wiser by then.
Hey Walker,
My weekend is fairly free if you're up for anything.
Right now I'm digging on this album that's a remix or whatever of James Brown's "Sex Machine Today" record. This was done by J Rocc, who apparently was in the Beat Junkies. It's pretty fun.
You guys may be interested in this story...Clement "Coxsone" Dodd, one of the legendary Jamaican deejays and producers (according to this article, one of the guys most responsible for building the scene), died earlier this week:
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/04-05/07.shtml#story3
Incidentally, Jeff, "Opus" on the forums lives in Lincoln, NE, about 45 minutes or an hour away. We've not gotten to hang out quite as much lately due to school, rough winter weather, etc., but we often end up getting into these great conversations when he's around. I think we often bore most of those who might also be at the gatherings (Liz, who you met once, is part of the circle of friends) but it's always great. There's another guy who isn't on the boards, Jared, who is really great, as well...he's pretty new to the area but was introduced to us by the Renea Jason recently mentioned on the board. He actually took our engagement pictures about a week and a half ago. Anyway, Jason's super and would definitely be up for a Kung Fu or Kirosawa or pretty much any type of decent film marathon. I saw him a few weeks ago and we hung out at Jared's short film premiere and hopefully can hang out again soon...I forget if you've met him yet or not, Walker, but hopefully we can all get together soon. My time frees up quite a bit by the end of this week, so we'll have to all get something going.
Hey Jeff,
I currently have your Weberman boot tape, I think...you let me borrow it last time I was in the area. I've not listened to it yet but Walker, maybe we should have a listening party this weekend once I'm done with finals.
I'll maybe post a copy of my paper on the blog once it's done, though at this point I'm not even mentioning Dylan's responses much...the focus is on the difference in media coverage. A whole other thesis could be written on Dylan's responses in the two. The whole story about why he became a "rock'n'roller" is one of the funniest things I've ever read and actually reminds me of a chapter from Trout Fishing In America (which I highly recommend, it's a pretty short but beautiful read). One of the thousand things I want to do more study and reading on this summer is Richard Brautigan. I wonder if there were ever any real Dylan ties there, in more than spirit.
I'm glad you enjoyed the St. George article. This past Sunday was the Feast Day of St. Athanasius and Fr. Stephen was talking about his life a little bit and encouraged us to go research more, so I think I will.
Last night after the final I was talking to the professor, who just happens to be the Chair of the English Department, and he said he'd heard something about that whole Dow Chemical Protest stunt we pulled in the Culture of the 60s class. He complimented me on it and said it sounded really creative and interesting. My professors must have been talking it up around the department. It would be funny if I go to take another class soon and a prof I don't even know knows me to be the Dow Chemical Protest guy. I have no idea why that makes me laugh. Sometimes it takes a lot to laugh, I suppose.
In regards to your post from last Tuesday, Jeff...
I agree, I think there ARE people from every denomination that are searching, some of whom don't even know it yet...we just pray that they will someday. I was inwardly squirming to search for years -- I believe since sometime in elementary school -- and never quite felt the time was right until, well, it was. I was so confined and it's not like I was afraid to go looking so much as it didn't feel quite right yet in addition to the fact that I'd never really been exposed to anything like Buechner, Merton, etc. Anything I'd read or heard of in Christianity had been fairly shallow or catering to the shallow at best, reactionary and theologically problematic at worst. We just sort of swallowed what we'd been fed not because we wanted to -- it stayed at the cusp of our throats, ready to spit out the moment we heard something better -- but because that's all there was. I do still feel like as much as I like to complain about my background and upbringing, it was very good for me in many ways. Walker and I have had this conversation a million times but so much about our common upbringing has really prepared us for the places we are now and are going. Our individual familial backgrounds actually differ in some fairly significant ways, but again, both were really quite good and a positive influence. In fact, I'd warrant that had I NOT come up in a Christian school where theological terms (at least the simple ones) and the IDEA of talking about Christianity in a deeper sense than "let's just praise the Lord!" was present, then perhaps my exposure to "the great stuff" would have been a shock, too much for me to wade into when I did. Obviously we have no idea. Anyway, I got to rambling there.
Thanks for reminding me of the small pockets of "seeker" types. It really is good to be reminded of that. Sometimes it's hard to remember and good to think about.
And yes, you're totally right...we all DO definitely need that connection with peers or those who could be so. I think that's a big part of why fundamentalism IS so huge in the way it is. If we look at its history in the last hundred years or so, it really arose as a reaction, as we know...but I think it caught on so strongly because here we had people who definitely were turned off by the movement of liberalism and had no interest or desire to seek out any of the liturgical practices like Catholicism or Anglican/Episcopalianism for one reason or another. The same goes for the Pentecostal movement. I daresay that in addition to other elements that really appeal to people, the sense of connection is a big part of it. I was talking with a woman whose family is pretty new to our church and she was talking about how on their "journey" they were involved for a few years with a Pentecostal church. She was talking about how one of her sons absolutely refused to get involved there. At the time he was going to a Catholic high school and kept trying to convert to Catholicism (which the school refuses to allow kids to do unless the parents are Catholic) and kept telling his parents about the One True Church. She said she called him up not too long ago and said, "Guess what...remember how you kept telling us about the One True Church? We finally found it!" Anyway, my point here is that she said a big part of why they got involved in that church for a little while in the first place is not necessarily anything theological but more because some friends invited them and there was that built-in connection that turned out to have very little to do with the church.
Speaking of all this, this is really the sort of thing I want to incorporate with the Vagrant Cafe zine part. Building connection, not even necessarily through having a ton of spiritual content. However, I think that if we can display a well-thought appreciation of things like music and art and literature and so on, people will have more of a connection to a certain way of thinking that is, of course, a part of who I am as a whole that not only leads me to look at those things a certain way, but also led me to Orthodoxy, reading people like Merton and Percy and so on, etc. It's sort of weird because Carter's not really in any of this vein at all yet really supports me in it (though he's very repulsed by the whole "CCM" and mainstream Protestant Christian mindset and culture).
